It’s Not Just Strategy: Emotional Labor and the Need for Community in Comms with Gabrielle Ferree, Founder at Off the Record

What happens when comms pros finally take their own advice—and build platforms for themselves?

In this episode of Under Embargo, we sit down with Gabrielle Ferree—former VP of Global Comms at Bumble, Slack, and Salesforce—who's stepping off the corporate ladder to launch Off the Record, a new coaching and community space for comms professionals who are tired of doing it all in isolation.

We dig into:
— Emotional labor and why it never shows up in your promotion packet
— Post-COVID loneliness, leadership, and the death of swivel chair moments
— Why being "just a manager" is actually the most important job in the room
— The myth of the comms unicorn (spoiler: she doesn't need to be a media machine and a therapist)
— Building your own playbook when no one's done this job before

Whether you're a rising comms star or a battle-scarred VP, this conversation will hit. If you've ever juggled AI, crises, and emotional triage before your second coffee—this one's for you.

Transcript

[00:00:54] Parry: Hey everybody and welcome back to the Under Embargo Podcast. I am one half of your hosting [00:01:00] team, Perry Hedrick, uh, crackle founder. Um, obviously you guys know Becca Chambers. She is the other half that will be speaking momentarily. But today we are super excited to announce a guest who's pretty heavy hitting in the world of comms.

Her, uh, lineup of career stops looks like a murderer's row of comms expertise. Uh, her name is Gab Furry, and she is, um, got some news that she's gonna talk about today. But she also, um, before we get to that point, has just finished a stint, quite a stint at, at Bumble. [00:01:30] Um, she, uh, there was VP of Global Communications, which is no, uh, no job for the faint hearted.

Prior to that, she was at Slack. She was senior director of corporate, internal, and executive comms. Another huge, huge role. And then the list goes on and on. She was at Salesforce in a comms capacity too. So we're really excited to have you here today. There's a lot we can talk about. 

[00:01:51] Gabrielle: Thanks so much Perry and Becca.

I'm really happy to be on after listening over the last couple weeks since you've all launched, so thanks for doing this. This is so exciting [00:02:00] that the comms industry just has feel like so much like investment and oxygen and cool initiatives that are happening that like our marketing friends, no offense Becca, I know you're a comms girl at heart, but our marketing friends who had forever and now we're getting it in comms too.

So thank you for doing this. I'm so excited to be here. 

[00:02:16] Parry: Of course, and you said that so well, and it reminds me of one of the things that I say on LinkedIn all the time. I was kind of one of the early folks on LinkedIn and I would always say. You know, we're so great at elevating everyone else, but we really suck at doing it for ourselves and it's so nice to see that there's a [00:02:30] little bit of a movement afoot here where, where people are realizing that if we don't do it for ourselves, who the hell's going to?

So, so here we are 

[00:02:38] Becca: and it's our responsibility, right? Like as people who have a platform and are the executives in this industry gab you too? Like it is our responsibility to share the wins of our team and what we're doing, because otherwise nobody's gonna know about it. Absolutely. 

[00:02:53] Gabrielle: We're, we're no longer being the cobbler's children.

[00:02:55] Parry: That's right. Correct. So it's kind of a nice segue. Um, you know, I, I kind of wanna get [00:03:00] right to the, the news piece of what we're talking about here today, because you have some pretty interesting news. And I haven't seen a lot of people do a foray into the area you are doing it in. So, um, do you wanna talk about the new community that you're building for comms professionals and, and kind of give us the genesis of, of what happened with that.

How we got here and, and, and, and where you're at. 

[00:03:20] Gabrielle: Absolutely Perry, and thanks so much for allowing me the chance to talk about it. 'cause it is something I'm truly excited about. I have been working in comms for the last 15 years in a [00:03:30] variety of roles from startups to big companies like Salesforce and Bumble that you've mentioned.

And I'm recently in a position where I just had a moment to just like take a sit and be like. What do I like the most about what I do and what are the parts that I am like uniquely really good at? Like I think media relations is great. I like media relations, like writing cool. I like doing that. But what I love to do, I.

Is like manage my teams and help them be better at comms and [00:04:00] help them be like, Hey, guess what? You can have balance. Like you can go to your Wednesday night bowling league every single week. You do not need to log on at 8:00 PM every single night, and I'm still gonna get you a path to promoted. Like, here are ways that you can be more productive without just grinding out those hours and seeing all these individuals that I've worked with over the last 15 years grow in their career.

Grow in their titles, grow in their autonomy, grow in the trust that they've earned with their executives. Like that has been my sweet [00:04:30] spot and the part that I've loved the most, and I was like, how can I do that at scale? Because it's great to have impact on the couple of people that I have on my team.

There are so, so, so many people that either have a manager who is too busy or too senior or maybe even too checked out to grow them. And I know that because I have been that manager where I'm like, oh, I wish I could spend more time with you, but like, I have so many things going on, I just can't do it. So I've launched off the record, it's a community for comms professionals, uh, to provide coaching.

So we're gonna do [00:05:00] monthly workshops, master classes, so you can learn the latest of what's going on in our industry. We're gonna do one to many coaching, which I'm calling office hours. So you can bring a problem, a pitch, a plan, whatever it is you're working on. Maybe you're debating changing jobs, maybe you're having a hard time.

I. Getting things approved internally, whatever it is, and we can talk about it live. Um, we're gonna have a template library so people, you know, don't have to start from scratch with building a pitch or, you know, responding to a crisis or whatever it is. They're working on Building an all hands for internal comms folks, [00:05:30] um, and a lot of other elements of it.

So I'm really excited for off the record, we're gonna open it in cohorts. So the first cohort's opening in, in the middle of June. I think by the time this comes out, uh, it could possibly open or closed. If you're hearing it and you wanna join, email me at gab at join off the record.com. I'll let you in. Uh, but yeah, we're really excited about it and the response has been amazing.

A lot of people who, you know, I was thinking about as like the ideal comms person who I was building this for have [00:06:00] reached out to me and been like, I need this. I'm lonely. I'm working from home. I don't have the swivel chair moments, I'm. Unable to sit in my SVPs office and learn from them. Like I'm not overhearing phone calls of people anymore like I used to, or I never got that because I'm 25 and I joined the workforce in the middle of COVID and I've never had coworkers.

So I'm really excited to bring this cohort of, you know, rising energetic. Leaders or you know, soon to be leaders in [00:06:30] communications across their career spectrum, across agency, in-house consulting, whatever it is. And really be that like I think my LinkedIn is like your comms BF. So like just to really be that, that friend in the office that everyone needs and no one really has anymore.

And you know, just be that for them. 

[00:06:49] Becca: I gotta say. The, first of all, love the messaging. I, I would expect nothing less from somebody of your comms caliber, but really like I'm listening to it and I'm like, [00:07:00] accurate, accurate. Dead on right? You nailed all of the pain points. It's perfect. So just. From, from my co, from somebody who is your demographic.

Love it. Um, the, the point about post COVID not having the swivel chair moments is the thing, and I talk about it and I don't, I love the, um, phrase swivel chair moments. By the way, I don't think I've ever heard somebody say that before. Um. I used to just talk, like you don't hear the hallway chatter, you [00:07:30] don't like by osmosis, you don't get the info.

And as a communications person like that is so, so important, right? To just be kind of hearing and being around the other people and getting to know people and getting to like, I don't know, just all the little nuggets. So I think what you are offering is something that. I'm not even sure. Some people realize that they don't have, you know, like they might realize that they need a coach or that they need more help, but they, I think people don't even realize how much they're missing from those little [00:08:00] moments.

So I love this offering and, yay. Um, 

[00:08:03] Gabrielle: thank you, Becca. That means so much and like. To your point, like that's why like the office hours or the coaching, I wanna open it up to everyone. So even if you don't have a question to bring in that month or week or whatever we do, like you gotta listen to other people because you learn so much from that.

And to your point, like I was super lucky, my very first she job I had, and this is something I wanna talk about with the cohort of people who join off the record or whomever will listen to me, is like when you are [00:08:30] choosing a job. Or when you aren't interviewing, you are not just hoping they pick you. You have to pick your manager because your manager is the number one barrier to your success or not success at a company and in your career.

And I was so lucky with my first manager, Amy Salum, hello. I love you so much. And her manager at Conrad Box Hill, they spent so much time with me and growing me in those early days at my first agency job, they spent hours with me just. Chatting. How did we get that client? How did we work through that crisis?

[00:09:00] How did you handle when we really disappointed the CEO in this media plan execution and the amount that I got to learn by osmosis and directly from their time investment, which is never guaranteed, was the starting point of like a rocket ship of a career. And I am so grateful to them for that. I never could have known that that was important, but since I got that the first time, I.

Always made sure I was also interviewing for the manager. 

[00:09:28] Parry: Yeah. Uh, 

[00:09:28] Gabrielle: not just for the job. 

[00:09:29] Parry: I [00:09:30] heard an expression one time, which was find yourself a manager who will speak your name in a room full of opportunities. And, and that was a, a, an epiphany for me early on before I even started my company. Um, because I wanted to, I literally just gave 

[00:09:43] Gabrielle: me chills and like, you know, my previous boss at Bumble, Liani Jones is the epitome of that person and not just.

For you as a worker, but she also was just such an exemplary figure of a working mother, which Becca I know that you will [00:10:00] appreciate as well. Like she had these non-negotiables as a working mom that trickled down in a company like Bumble where you have so many women working there with so important, you know, non-negotiables.

She never missed a birthday, so no work travel on her children's birthdays. She never missed the first or last day of school and she always had dinner with her family. Which made it a little hard to schedule APAC calls. I digress. But we had to work around that because those were her non-negotiables in order for her to be the successful executive and be a mom there for her [00:10:30] children.

And you know what? Now I have non-negotiables, and now my team has non-negotiables. And even though they're not senior as she is, because she like stood that ground and made that like a norm within the company, now people feel like I can set my slack message to time with family. Call it urgent. No one ever calls.

They don't call. They just know not to expect a response from you right away. And it's brilliant and it's tiny, and it's these little micro things that we can do for people to give that great example as a leader [00:11:00] for a team and pair you as the agency leader. I hope you do the same thing, and I have no doubt that you do because you have a no asshole client rule, and I'm sure that that's the same as that you are.

Uh, also a no asshole boss role, I'm sure. 

[00:11:11] Parry: Yeah. Well, I was just gonna say, there's never been one time since I started this company, almost five years now during the pandemic, um, that I've never emailed or slacked anyone, uh, on a, on a weekend, on a weekend night at night, uh, ever. Not once. Um, it can, no, it can wait until, until Monday.

That's shocking 

[00:11:27] Becca: to me, I have to say, but that's because 

[00:11:29] Gabrielle: [00:11:30] I am not once hats off to you for that. That was one, you know, thing that I got from Amy, speaking of her again back in the day was like, if it can wait till tomorrow, it can wait till tomorrow. Yeah, there will always be something else that you could do tonight, but if it can wait till tomorrow, it can wait till tomorrow.

Well, the 

[00:11:44] Parry: problem is, and if you can slack somebody on a, on a Friday night or Saturday night and say, don't look at this until Monday. Well, guess what? They're already looking at it and they're thinking about it all goddamn weekend until Monday, so, right. It's like saying like, Hey, do you have 15 minutes?

People are like, oh my God, what is this call [00:12:00] gonna be about? Yeah. Until that 15 minutes happens, people are like deer in headlights. Well 

[00:12:03] Becca: trigger the anxiety attack for sure. 

[00:12:06] Parry: I can't commit to never ever doing it in the future, but so far I have not had to do it, and I hope that I never do. 

[00:12:12] Becca: It tells me you don't have a lot of crises at work, which is very nice for you.

You 

[00:12:16] Parry: know, I have to say we are fairly fortunate. We are not crisis free, but we don't have these all encompassing crises that I've had in the bigger agency. Like I was gonna 

[00:12:24] Becca: say, I had at least two jobs that I basically worked all weekend, every [00:12:30] weekend. 'cause there was never not a crisis, it was just constant crisis all the time.

And man, that'll grind you to death. Becca, I have to ask 

[00:12:38] Gabrielle: like, how did you do that? Because working all weekend, every, like, I'm trying to think if someone in off the record told me that, like I don't know what I would say to them other than like, get another job. That's sounds awful. That's what happened.

Yeah. 

[00:12:49] Becca: I mean, so I am, I would say I'm probably a lot like you, um, as a leader and I advocate for people to have pretty strong boundaries in, [00:13:00] um. You call them non-negotiables, but whatever they are, like you should be allowed to have boundaries. No is an acceptable answer to things. Right. Um, obviously you need to learn like.

Where no is good. 

[00:13:15] Gabrielle: Say no. Earned the right to say no. Sometimes, um, I say few times. Yeah. 

[00:13:21] Becca: I don't even remember what I was gonna talk about. What were we just talking about? This is the like working all weekend. How did you do it? Working all weekend. Right. So. In this, this one job [00:13:30] that I'm thinking of. I had a pretty large team and part of the reason why I worked all weekend was to shield them from having to work all weekend.

And that was the job that I learned that being a manager is 90% emotional labor, right? Like that is such a huge piece of what my job was. And in that job is when I really realized that like. To your point, I needed, my job is to focus on the team and see what I can do to help them do their jobs, grow in their [00:14:00] careers, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And then my goal was to change things so that we could get rid of the. Constant weekend grind. But when you work somewhere where there's constant crises, you don't, 

[00:14:12] Gabrielle: can I say something on this? Because this is something that I've been like noodling in my head and you bring it up by like, my working all weekend was to like shield everyone else.

So we're seeing like these headlines about people that are eliminating this like manager class of people, which like, again, another reason for off the record, because you're gonna have even less time with the boss to help [00:14:30] you. But like, okay, my husband's in sales, he is a sales manager. His sales manager doesn't also have a quota.

His sales manager's number 1, 2, 3, 4, and five. Job is to build up his sales team. Yeah. Manage the people and help them through getting the deals. Yep. But in comms, we don't do that. So you have a full-time job and then you also have the full-time job of managing the people who also have their full-time job and then their full-time job of managing people.

Yep. And like that's just the, like I, I don't know the solution to that. It's not like [00:15:00] we're gonna get more people because we have to like prove that AI. No, we had less people. Yeah. Well, Perry's replacing his children and mother with ai, which Brill by the way, very genius. They're, I need more sycophantic, you know, parents in my heart.

[00:15:16] Parry: Grandma ran away. She had ran away. 

[00:15:19] Gabrielle: Anyway, um, so it's just, it's just that emotional labor. I remember when I first became a people manager and then COVID happened. I mean, I just remember just crying at the [00:15:30] end of the day. 'cause it was just. 12 straight hours of being a therapist. Yeah. Um, and then having my job to do after that too.

Um, and we don't talk about that enough. So Thank you Becca, for like, talking about that and bringing that up and, and just kind of another reason of wanting to build this community is like, you're not alone. Like these are real big things you're dealing with. Honestly, I don't even think it's. Unique to comms.

It's definitely not unique to sales and maybe the sales managers of my life will email me and say, actually we [00:16:00] have a ton of emotional labor too. And I'm sure that that's the case, but you don't also have a quota. Yeah. So you don't also have this whole job doing, it's not your 

[00:16:07] Becca: like, that's the thing is like the, the deal, the management of the team and the helping the team and all of that shouldn't be the afterthought.

When you have extra time, which in comms you have, you don't have extra time, that should be part of the job description. And should be rewarded for you to spend the time. And it's not just like your weekly one-on-ones, which frankly I think we should probably [00:16:30] abolish one-on-ones and figure out a more, um, productive way to have mentorship or build in, I guess the, the leadership team pieces.

And I, I think, you know, large companies do it better, but you know, I've mostly worked at small scrappy places where it is literally just like you learn by doing. And, um, the, I was, I was knocked off my feet by, I. The emotional [00:17:00] labor aspect. No one had prepared me for that, I guess, and I'm, anyway, so 

[00:17:04] Gabrielle: yeah, and no one rewards you for it.

I remember I said this one time and then someone repeated it back to me, so it like stuck was like I never got promoted for the fact that I had no attrition. Like, no one ever left my team. Yes, my team was happy and no one ever, like, I never got a bonus for that. 

[00:17:19] Becca: I always use that as a data point too. I'm like, no one's ever quit.

My teams like, oh my God. Like why? I don't get anything. I don't get anything for that. Like you reward people. [00:17:30] Like you said, sales gets rewarded for things like that, but we don't in comms. Um, to your point though, you know, what you get from that is you get people that at your next job you can go and hire because they wanna work for you.

That is true. 

[00:17:41] Parry: You're a magnet. You take them with you to and fro. 

[00:17:44] Becca: I mean, I yes that and that is not nothing. Like, I think part of the reason I've been so successful was because I had like a bench of amazing people to call on. And a future job. Yeah. They're like, yes. And they also 

[00:17:57] Gabrielle: like so important and like [00:18:00] delineates like good bosses from not great bosses.

Yeah. I don't wanna say bad bosses, but we've all had a bad boss too. Is like, my value is not that I'm good, it's that my team is good. Team is 

[00:18:12] Becca: good. Mm-hmm. I know 

[00:18:14] Gabrielle: that's. Sorry, go ahead. No, if they can't stand in front of leadership and be excellent and I have to like jump in or take credit for their work, ew, vom never gonna do that.

Like my value is in them. And sometimes some CEOs and executive [00:18:30] leaderships don't see that and they say, well, what are you doing if your team is doing all of this? Like, no, no, no, no. Again, finding a great boss like you need to find an exec leadership team who sees the value of your team. Rising and being able to do so much because like, what if I get hit by a bus?

What if I wanna a bus? What if I wanna 

[00:18:45] Parry: leave? Like, sometimes they don't see the value you bring in terms of building that team until they see you in action at another table. And and that's where, and, and, and, and to your point, you don't get rewarded for building a team that never leaves you. Well, guess what?

Eventually you're gonna leave and they see you kick an ass somewhere else and they're like, [00:19:00] ah, I could have stopped that. I could have rewarded that, but it's a little too little, a little too late. So I wanna ask you a question about the, uh, community here again. So. PR comms, I think, is a little unique in the sense that, especially during COVID and since, um, everyone is a bit of an island, um, and they don't have that mentorship and they don't have that osmosis and they don't have those water cooler conversations or those swivel, swivel chair moments, um, as part of this community, almost like therapy for the people who need it.

Like, and I don't mean that in a [00:19:30] trite, sort of throwaway line way like. It kind of feels like that is a piece of this is people need to almost commiserate with other people about the multi-headed hydra of a challenge that's coming at us right now. In terms of shrinking media, ai, you know, outlandish expectations like all of that, are you viewing it through that lens at all, or is that me putting onto your, uh, community something that doesn't exist?

[00:19:57] Gabrielle: I want it to be what the members need it to be. [00:20:00] And I think that the part, it's interesting, yes, to answer your question very simply, but like a lot of my time right now is spent planning these monthly workshops or masterclasses and building out the template library and you know, there's a lot of time, intensity and making all of those plans.

But I think that actually six months from now when I serve with the members and they say what's gonna be the most valuable part of it, it's gonna be each other. It's not gonna be me, it's gonna be connecting with the other like-minded people. Finding that commiserate [00:20:30] support, that it's not just me type of, you know, moments within that, like literal community, the literal like technology that connects the people together that allows 'em to chat, message, call, come together.

Um, and, and, and I can't. I can only bring the people to the table. They're the ones who are gonna make it great. And that's why this is like an organism that's going to be oxygenated and created better by the types of people that it attracts, which, you know, Perry and Becca, I think you guys have paved the way for [00:21:00] people like me to be like this.

I am just being 100% authentically myself. Like I want to attract the type of membership. Who vibes with what I have to give because like, I don't want to code switch. I don't want to filter. I just want to 100% like do and be me. And I think that's gonna attract people like you both and like me and you know, these, this rising kind of cohort of comms leaders soon to be leaders, about to be leaders, [00:21:30] want to be leaders, et cetera.

And, um, they're gonna get a lot out of each other for that. So just like if. If you guys are hearing this and you like, like Perry and you like Becca and you like what you hear from me, like, there's a lot of us here and like hopefully we can come together in a place like off the record or you know, other communities that exist in comms and you can get that support.

Um, Perry, I'll never forget multi-headed Hydra. Um, yes, yes, yes. 

[00:21:58] Becca: I, I think also, [00:22:00] and I've been talking a lot about this lately and I actually think I just wrote a post about it. I write post in the middle of the night and then don't remember it. Community is the vehicle for everything now. Right now, like everybody is, I'm not like, I'm not a joiner.

I mean, I look like I'm a joiner 'cause I do a lot of stuff, but like, you know, if somebody's like, Hey, do you wanna join the pickleball league? I'm a hard no on that just because things like that schedule in all of my other things. [00:22:30] I found in the past two years, like I am joining a ton of communities and I am active in them.

And that is like not me usually. And the reason why is because like we need that right now. And when I need a. Agency, I'm gonna go ask my community first before I go out, or I need to hire somebody, which right now I'm gonna, I am hiring. Guess who I'm asking first? Everybody in my communities behind closed doors, because that is off the record.

That's the safe space. Those are the [00:23:00] people that I know and trust that have been curated that, you know. If I need a specific thing, it's for this community. If I need something else, it's that community and I know exactly the place to go for the thing that I need. And it's not just one, I don't just have the one community, right?

Like I have a cybersecurity marketing community, I have a VC marketing community. I have a just general CMO and like those things really matter. And to your point, having the one that is for communications, people who are. [00:23:30] Looking for community. Um, there's, there's a thing, there's an appetite there. Yeah, I know.

[00:23:34] Gabrielle: Yeah. And we're all 

[00:23:35] Becca: seeing 

[00:23:35] Gabrielle: like the rise of the group chat. Yeah. You know, as like being the trusted source of information. Yeah. You know, Becca and Perry, you probably have this too, but like the parents. Of the kids my daughter is in school with is probably my favorite group chat. Yeah. Like you need a landscaper or you need, you know, a donation or you need support on something like that is the place people go.

And it is such a lovely space and place and we've had that in [00:24:00] our personal lives for a long time. And now that we've lost the work bestie, we've lost that person we go to lunch with. We don't like walk to coffee down the street with people anymore because we're not in the office. Um. We gotta, we gotta build it and work and it's, it's great to hear that you're a part of a lot and like, kind of to that point, you said you have the VC one, you have the marketing one.

Like there's space for a lot of these places 

[00:24:20] Becca: in comms too, and, and appetite for it. Yes, yes. It's not like it's too saturated right now, like if people say that, right, like there's a community for everything and there's, [00:24:30] and it's like, I don't know. I have a need for things that don't exist yet. So there's white space there.

You gotta find the 

[00:24:35] Gabrielle: one that fits with what you. 

[00:24:38] Becca: Are looking for. And 

[00:24:39] Gabrielle: there are some communities that are like your Yeah. Right. 

[00:24:41] Becca: For your vibe. Exactly Your vibe. And I mean, sorry I interrupted you, but like that was what you said earlier is like you don't need to be everything to everyone. 'cause there's a different comms community who's gonna be the like.

Buttoned up whatever boring one can, can I say 

[00:24:56] Parry: the fun to that point? I, I wrote a, a LinkedIn post a few days ago, like almost every [00:25:00] topic I've written a post on, so I can always like, oh, I wrote a post about that. But, but I wrote a post about how, um, people might be surprised to learn that. I've never been a part of like, PR associations.

I don't subscribe to PR week. Like I don't do all the sort of like corporate-y stuff, which is not a knock on it. It's just never been my. Safe space. And I've always kind of been outside of those lines. And I guess what I'm saying about this group that you're making is, it seems a little bit more about like my kind of GM where I don't want the stuffiness of everybody looking at name placards and trying to [00:25:30] schmooze and like work their way up a ladder.

I wanna just have real, to your point, authentic and just. Honest conversations about, let's face it, the plight that many of us feel we're in at this moment in time. Um, and I, I think that's a refreshing thing that the corporate stuff can't really offer you. Um, yeah. 

[00:25:46] Gabrielle: And Perry, to your point on that, and I, and I have, I read that post and I was like, yeah, me, it, me, it, me too.

Yeah. Because like, it's funny, like I could show you the screenshot text messages of reaching out to mentors and previous bosses and chief [00:26:00] communications officers being like, I'm struggling. I don't know what to do next. I'm not sure, like I'm, I'm the head of comms at this company. I like a lot of pressure is on me.

There's a multi-headed hydra of crisis pilling on me every single day. Uh, like where do I go? Who do I turn to? And no one has a response. Nope. And so it's like, I built this because I needed it. Yeah. I needed a place in a space where I could go, where I could be vulnerable, where I could ask, like, I don't even wanna say dumb questions, but be like, [00:26:30] yeah, I may be vp, I may have been VP of communications at Bumble, but that doesn't mean I wasn't Googling like.

How to, how to do Oh, like what to do now, right? Like, yeah, like things just got, even when I was at Bumble, you know, um, at a certain point, you know, the CMO was on maternity leave. I took over influencer, social celebrity, um, brand activations and like physical, you know, popups, like at the US Open. And I was like, 

[00:26:55] Becca: I, can I say something though to that point, what you just said and I feel this way about [00:27:00] AI right now?

Like. We, you and I, were both heads of comms at companies. Right. We are the first heads of comms ever to exist in the landscape that we live in right now. Mm-hmm. So literally no one has ever done this job. And I feel like we need to remind ourselves of that because like we're looking around for help, but like we are the people who are the experts at this because nobody has ever had this job before.

The experts 

[00:27:26] Parry: dunno.[00:27:30] 

[00:27:30] Becca: Nobody knows shit about ai. The people who are the experts are just the ones who are talking about how they're using it, right? I mean, there are some people who are experts by trade and whatever, whatever. But like the marketing leaders who I see who are, you know, doing keynotes about ai, they're not an expert at ai.

They're just sharing how they're using it because they are using it. And I feel like that's how we need to look at what our jobs are now is like. We're the ones paving the path. And what you're doing is so awesome because you are saying, I just walked this road and now I'm gonna help you [00:28:00] all as you're walking your road, because these are the pain points that I saw, but like nobody has been in this job next.

And your point like that, 

[00:28:07] Gabrielle: because no one has been in it, doesn't mean that I am the foremost. Authority on AI and comms. There's a good chance that there's some assistant account executive, you know, at an agency who's using it far better than all of us. Like, let's raise up their voice. Let's, and a community like off the record, can help them do that.

Sure. I'm gonna learn more, far more 

[00:28:26] Becca: than their, that's the other thing, when you're a senior leader, like you're, you don't [00:28:30] have as many opportunities to learn. And like, I actually get frustrated sometimes because. You know, I want a team that will push back and challenge and whatever, because otherwise it's just me up there alone, like telling people to do things.

I'm not learning anything anymore. If that's the case, I'm just sitting on my throne barking orders and like, what's fun in that, you know? 

[00:28:50] Gabrielle: Absolutely. And, and I even, I'm talking about this in my free masterclass that I'm doing, which is on like growing as a comms leader and like kind of the secrets that I've learned along the [00:29:00] way.

Um, and. Pushing back on your leader is such a scary thing to do, but I promise you it is the most brilliant move that you can make because just because they're in charge doesn't mean they can see everything you can from your seat. That's why you're there. That's why you're in that seat. And like, um, one of the best direct reports I've ever had in my life.

Speaking of one-on-ones, Becca, she did a good job at one-on-ones. Like she used them as debate opportunities where I would be like, Hey, like you don't need to spend as much time on that. Like, I know you're overwhelmed. Let's look [00:29:30] over here. And she'd be like, but here's all these things you haven't thought about before.

I learned so much from her and I attribute so much of my success from learning from her, even though I was her boss. There's no ego here. We're all just trying to be better. And I definitely, you know, spoke her room in or spoke her name in rooms of opportunity. No doubt. 

[00:29:47] Becca: Like I said, I'm hiring right now and one of my main.

Like bullets is like, I need somebody who's gonna be a thought partner to me who's actually going to like bring ideas and share with me or say, no, that's stupid. Let's not do that because [00:30:00] X, Y, or Z. Yeah. Have an opinion. Dam it. 

[00:30:02] Gabrielle: Yes. It's the same thing with 

[00:30:03] Parry: my role level. I've always said, and you guys I'm sure would agree that the client isn't always right and in fact if they are, why would they need you?

Like what is the main point? Yeah. Of that and thought partner is a great way to say that we're, we're on equal footing here. I'm not looking to be anyone's vendor. I'm looking to be your partner. And the moment that trust is broken, I think we don't have much left. Right? 

[00:30:21] Becca: Of course. 

[00:30:22] Parry: Yeah. You 

[00:30:22] Becca: hire someone to be an expert at something, right?

Like that's the point. Like they ha they bring expertise. So, I don't know, it drives [00:30:30] me nuts and also drives me. So I 

[00:30:31] Parry: wanna, uh, talk a little bit about the AI world again, um, because I think there's a confluence of two things that are uniquely interesting as it relates to your community gab, which is, um, so I've recently been on the bandwagon about ai, talking about how it's actually an opportunity in this like world of horror that we have because large language models actually prioritize earned, um, uh, media overpaid and over owned.

Um, and they, they [00:31:00] prioritize also communities. So the community piece is actually interesting for people and I think we're seeing more and more people gravitate toward communities just organically, but it's going to ultimately help with their personal brand and elevate their company brand. But AI might just be an opportunity, um, for those of us who are.

You know, feeling chagrin about the lack of opportunity, if we look at it through the lens of earned media and community and those two things together can be really, really, really powerful. And I'm just wondering, to what extent have you thought about the AI piece [00:31:30] as it relates to your community? Um, is there like a track or is there like, sort of like a, a wing of your community where you're gonna be focusing on that, that issue?

Or is it still too new to say? 

[00:31:39] Gabrielle: So interestingly yesterday I heard a panel where they said something like, there's no such thing as a tech reporter anymore. And there's only AI reporters, and now it's almost like so much that it's all ai, that now they're just back to be calling tech reporters again. Yeah.

Yeah. And, and, and so I kind of think about that way. It's like there's, there's nothing that's not AI right now, but Perry, now you've given me some [00:32:00] ideas because I had ideas like. My initial vision was that when you joined off the record, you would get access to all these custom GPTs that would help like you easily build a briefing book or something.

And I had to like, I had too many things and I had to like, trim them down and like focus on what I could launch and I could always launch other things later. Um, but I never thought about actually using the. Actual community as a learning data source for, uh, owned kind of off the record AI bot that you could talk to in the same way that like, um, Chachi BT pulls from [00:32:30] Reddit Yeah.

To give you responses. So, uh, thanks for the business idea. Appreciate 

[00:32:33] Becca: that. Um, I have an idea for you also, by the way. Sure. Um, why don't you have a place where people in the community can share GPT so you guys can build them for each other and share them with each other, like a GPT library repository that are like comms focused.

Obviously, you'll have the ones you provide, but then make it a peer sharing situation. 

[00:32:52] Gabrielle: Yes. And that is the strategy I had for the template library. So I have a couple that will be ready and I'm gonna do a new drop every month, like a kit, [00:33:00] like, um, you know, an internal comms kit that has like, you know, top to bottom, like start the template.

But what I really think is gonna be valuable is the community contributions to the template library. Um, and now we're gonna open up to GPTs as well, or at least prompts or something that people can use so they can just like speed up their work and have more time doing the things that they actually love to do, either in their job or in their personal life.

[00:33:22] Parry: One thing that you might wanna consider if you haven't already, and you may have, um, do, do you know Dave Gerhardt and his Exit five community? It's for marketing. No, I don't. [00:33:30] It's for B2B marketers, uh, specifically. Um, and it's as heavy on, on SaaS, um, specifically, but I. One of the things that he has done all along, I've always thought was really super brilliant was say to the people that would potentially join his community.

He's like, and by the way, just tell your job that you're joining a a, a community, um, for B2B, and they'll, you can expense it, meaning just go to your, go to your employer and they'll education in that community with their blessing, pay for it. So it's on them. Uh, and it's a learning experience, which it is, [00:34:00] and it's kind of a win-win for everyone, including conferences.

[00:34:03] Gabrielle: So this absolutely falls within learning and development budgets. I have a template that people can download to send to their boss to get them to pay for it. And you know, actually like, that kind of brings me to pricing, which like. Was the most challenging part, and at least to get started, like you just gotta start somewhere and then you can evolve as time goes.

Perry, I'm sure you've discovered this in your agency fee structure as well, but like I wanted it to be a number that could easily be covered by an L and d budget, but also like that wouldn't be too [00:34:30] painful out of pocket if someone wanted to pay for or needed to pay for it. And then as I was thinking and reflecting and Becca reading like a lot of your content about how.

Still, the job market is really hard for a lot of people. I'm also gonna do something called like a job loss protection. So like, if you lose your job for any reason, um, no questions asked, your next three months are free. Like, I'm just gonna cover it because you shouldn't have to lose your community when you've also lost your job and there's a good chance your job paid for this and now you don't have an income and now, you know.

So I just, what? [00:35:00] Sorry to interrupt. What about for people who don't have jobs who wanna join? Like, do you have, let's do it, let's give 'em their first three months. Three months. Yeah. There you go. No questions asked. And it's like, 'cause again, you know, it's, communities are great from the people that are inside them, and I want to, you know, um, there's not a lot that I will take from the Facebook model, but what I will take is that there's so much value in, in getting people bought in on the idea and then sort of figuring out like.

Also the strategy later. 

[00:35:29] Becca: The people who are [00:35:30] most motivated to join communities are the people who are looking for jobs. Do you know what I mean? So like also if that is like, that's a good pipeline for you. C, come have your first three months for free. Once you get a job, get your work to pay for it.

You're in now. Like plus they can network with each other. Help find future employee. 

[00:35:45] Parry: Talk about testimonial gold. I mean, they're in your community getting jobs. Great. 

[00:35:49] Becca: I know. I love it. I wanna come visit your community sometimes. So please, um, please do. Can like, yes. You'll both hang. Can I get like a free, uh, [00:36:00] pass to come visit?

Oh, absolutely. And we 

[00:36:03] Gabrielle: do a workshop, a masterclass of training or just like a Becca Love session. Um, I. LinkedIning not being cobbler's children, uh, whatever it is. And, and Perry, I, I know I, that's actually how I originally reached out about this is I was like, will you come do a workshop with us? I have all these ideas.

Um, also the podcast is great. Can I come on it? And you're like, yes. So I appreciate 

[00:36:23] Parry: that to the Yeah. Get on here. 

[00:36:26] Gabrielle: Hell to the, yeah. 

[00:36:27] Becca: This is a perfect segue 'cause I'm gonna move to our creepy [00:36:30] end questions. No, they're not creepy. Only one creepy

[00:36:37] Parry: in. 

[00:36:38] Becca: Oh God. Rapid fire as we like to call 'em. Not creepy questions, although I guess we could rebrand them as such. So, are you ready? Let's go. Okay. What is a myth or misconception about communications that drives you crazy? I. 

[00:36:55] Gabrielle: I know you asked this one a lot and I should have been more prepared because like [00:37:00] a hilarious thing that's happened to me in this, and I'm not answering the question yet.

I know it's called rapid fire, but here I go with a long answer. You, um, I haven't been doing like the level of prep that I make, my executives never, we never, we wasted energy on our executives. For sure. Yeah, I think, I think anything that expects a level of measurement similar to marketing absolutely drives me crazy.

I am though on a mission to, to master public relations metrics. [00:37:30] Um, and Perry, I'm sure you have to do this from an agency all the time. I would love to give off the record people like some sort of. This is how you do it. Because I think we as an industry talk about like, measuring is so hard, but like people aren't exactly like telling me how to do it instead.

Um, so I think, uh, clear define measurement from like the work that we do to drive sales. Yeah. That doesn't exist and that drives me crazy. 

[00:37:55] Parry: I know this is rapid fire and I'm, I'm going to take this a little bit far afield, but [00:38:00] the interesting thing that I have found throughout my career is we have made dashboards.

We have come up with proprietary, you know, algorithms. We have hooked up to your backend to measure, you know, who's coming to your website from where. We've done so many, so many things. And what I've really found, and this is just true, that as long as you have a checkbox, you could cover this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this.

The executive's like. You got the measurement sweet, but they never wanna look at it again. They really don't wanna see it that much. They just wanna make you have it can do it, and they can put it in a [00:38:30] board presentation at the end of the quarter. That 

[00:38:31] Becca: is the truth. But they 

[00:38:32] Parry: don't actually wanna look at it, dig through it, and parse it.

They just wanna know you got it. 

[00:38:36] Becca: They don't even care about the data. That means anything. They just wanna see numbers. Yeah. Like, oh, okay. You have data that shows something. Totally. Can you make 

[00:38:42] Parry: a frigging pie chart that'll impress the board? Yes or no? The answer 

[00:38:45] Becca: dashboard me. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:38:48] Parry: That's true.

Alright, let's move on. 

[00:38:50] Becca: I'm with you. I love that though. Um, and for to, I always tell people like, it's always very bespoke, like we're, it depends on your goals, right? So if you can create some sort of a [00:39:00] menu of like, here are the kinds of things you can measure, here's how to do it. And pick and choose what works for your company.

I think that's a great idea. 

[00:39:06] Gabrielle: Yeah. I think bespoke is the right thing. Like I remember one product launch we did at Bumble where like my number one measure is six. Success was that there wasn't a misconception about the product that they like got that single message right. Yeah. And so I was like 87% of the articles got this message right.

And like that was my thing. I don't know if that's like what the executives cared as much about, but like I was head of comm, so I was supposed to like define what success was. Sure. And [00:39:30] thankfully I worked with the leadership team that allowed me to do that. We 

[00:39:32] Parry: have a client right now that wants to talk to us about add value equivalency.

I'm not kidding. 

[00:39:37] Becca: No, 

[00:39:37] Parry: I'm not kidding. It's happening right now. Alright, move on. 

[00:39:40] Becca: Okay. Um, you get to a race one corporate buzzword from existence. What is it? 

[00:39:46] Gabrielle: Okay. I actually did think about this one. Um, and it's kind of an old one, but it's the word operationalize. It was one that we used in my enterprise SaaS.

Startup Day so much. And we also pretended we [00:40:00] were a UK based company for like half a minute there. And so we would spell operationalize with an S instead of a Z. And um, I, I hate it and I want it to disappear altogether. And then I think everyone says, you know, like the thrilled and excited. You know, it's so funny.

Um, I also am like good morning to everyone except for those who say thrilled and excited and press releases. But when I.

I'm so excited. 

[00:40:27] Parry: Excited. 

[00:40:28] Gabrielle: I'm 

[00:40:29] Parry: enthralled. [00:40:30] 

[00:40:31] Gabrielle: So it's like, it's so funny that like, I can be like, da da duh. You know, about all these things. When it comes to me, I'm like, I'm just super excited. 

[00:40:39] Becca: I a hundred percent, I, I always say like, I would fire myself if I was my own, like pr slash whatever person, just because like, I don't use any strategy for my own stuff.

I spend that, I'll leave all that on at work, I guess. 

[00:40:52] Parry: If you represent your court yourself in court, you'll have a fool for a client is what? There you go. 

[00:40:56] Becca: Exactly. Um, okay. You're about to give a [00:41:00] presentation in front of 50,000 people. What is your walkout song? 

[00:41:05] Gabrielle: Ooh, uh, am I allowed to say Kendrick Amar not like us.

Yeah. Okay. That song like I have. Been just so deep since before the Super Bowl halftime performance, but since the Super Bowl halftime performance, especially like I am, I am in many deep Reddit threads, YouTube rabbit holes. I am here for it. So, um, and it has [00:41:30] to be the explicit version, obviously. 

[00:41:32] Parry: Love it.

Best answer yet. In my humble opinion, 

[00:41:35] Becca: I'm really into peekaboo right now from Kendrick. Well, I wouldn't even say right now for like the last, like six months because it's like a dopamine song for me. It's great. So if you guys haven't listened to that, highly recommend. If you need a little, uh, energy boost.

Love it. Okay. If you had to do a TED talk about anything but communications. What would it be? 

[00:41:57] Gabrielle: Uh, personal finance. So little tweaks and [00:42:00] strategies you can make to start getting in control of your money and spending. Wow, that's so cool. Comms 

[00:42:06] Becca: expert and personal finance expert who want them. Yeah, 

[00:42:09] Parry: those two things don't usually no stick together all that much.

Math and, and comms. 

[00:42:13] Gabrielle: I didn't like the, I shouldn't have been in comms, so like, it's funny, like I AP tested out of math and science in college. Um, I should have gone into math and science, and I like didn't do as well on like the English kind of part of things, but like, I don't know if I'm a masochist or something, but [00:42:30] like, that's what I went into.

I was like, Ooh, this is hard for me. Like, let me work on that. I love numbers, but, um, if anyone wants my first personal finance tip, it's very easy. It's save at the beginning of your paycheck, not at the end. Whatever lands into your debit or your like checking account, that's the money you can spend because you've already saved on the front end.

[00:42:47] Parry: So I have to ask you this. I know we're trying to do rapid fire here, but these are so interesting. Um, your answers are interesting. So in your community, is there a path or a lane to talk about the personal finance piece? I think that would be God [00:43:00] fabulous. 

[00:43:00] Gabrielle: Yeah. I'm actually have it like set up as one of the workshops.

This fall is like, yeah, because like, again, like. It's so funny is like, I just kinda wanna do whatever I wanna do right now and I love talking about personal finance. So we're gonna do a session on it. We'll probably mix it in with like productivity hacks, like little things like, um, here's one. So I am a hundred percent always on do not disturb a hundred percent of the time, but there are certain people that can interrupt my do not disturb and those people change.

So right now my baby is with a babysitter. [00:43:30] She's a pass. The on may do not disturb, but she's not gonna be on it over the weekend when he's not with her. So like little things like that, it's not just about comms. Again, I feel like this community could kind of be for. Anybody, but I'm obviously focused on comms.

Uh, but yeah, we'll do, we'll do personal finance. We'll do productivity, we'll do noncoms things because uh, it's what I feel like talking about. 

[00:43:49] Parry: Love it. That's kind of this, this, this show is kind of like that. We'll talk about comms, we'll go way over here and way over there. 'cause we can. 

[00:43:57] Gabrielle: I love how you guys are like new episodes whenever we feel like it.

[00:44:00] Yeah. 

[00:44:00] Becca: Yes. Well, like work doesn't stop when you leave work, right? Especially comms people. Like we're just, you know, it's, it's all intertwined, so you have to be able to talk about all the things with your community anyway. Okay. You get one, you get to use one emoji. For the rest of your life. Which one? It's like this hands one, like, 

[00:44:21] Gabrielle: ah, jazz hands, you know, like with the like floats on top of the hands, 

[00:44:27] Parry: like the high, the double high five.[00:44:30] 

[00:44:30] Gabrielle: Yeah, I, I don't see it as a double high five. That's so weird. I see it as almost like a, like a bow down, like, you know, like hand raised. Like you are 

[00:44:39] Parry: really, I always just thought it was like a double, like, 

[00:44:44] Gabrielle: you know what's so funny, Perry is like, slack did these global surveys on emoji usage and how different countries interpret emojis in different ways.

Oh. And now I'm realizing like I maybe have been doing my favorite emoji 

[00:44:58] Becca: rock. [00:45:00] Maybe we need to like do a poll on this. This is fascinating. Yeah. 

[00:45:04] Parry: Yeah. You think it's like Jesus take the wheel kind of thing? Yeah. 

[00:45:09] Gabrielle: I mean, and maybe a lot of people think that most of the time I'm telling Jesus to take the wheel and I'm just going like.

Girl, you got it. Like you're amazing. Hail bow down. Wow. This is, this is enlightening. 

[00:45:24] Becca: Oh my God. Um, 

[00:45:25] Gabrielle: that's hilarious. 

[00:45:27] Becca: Perry gets to take the wheel now, [00:45:30] speaking of taking the wheel. Go ahead. 

[00:45:32] Parry: Things get real serious now. So if you listened to the podcast, you may have heard this question. It has to do with hiccups and pinkies.

Um, here's a choice. You must either have hiccups for three months straight, uninterrupted. You can't medicate them away. You can't do anything. You must sleep with hiccups. You must speak with hiccups. You'd be on this podcast with hiccups around the clock for three months. Three months. That's a long time.

Or you can get rid of that [00:46:00] problem immediately by severing your pinky. What do you choose and why? 

[00:46:04] Gabrielle: I know you are team hiccups, Perry, it's so weird because you talk like for your job and you have children and you have a wife and you would just be hiccuping the whole time. She's gonna come pick, you're really attached to your pinkies, but like, frankly, they're kind of useless.

So like I know, I know, I know. 

[00:46:24] Parry: I would've, I would've bet a lot of money Gab that you would've said, I'm keeping my pinky. You're gonna cut. [00:46:30] 

[00:46:31] Gabrielle: This is such a painful question. Did you invent this one? Like, this is like a 

[00:46:36] Becca: weird torture chamber because I'm Your wife invented, somebody invented it in Perry's family, 

[00:46:41] Parry: I think.

I think I either heard it or we invented it in my family sometime a while ago, but I, I just. 

[00:46:46] Gabrielle: It's great dinner table conversation. You know, my sister told me that like, so she was like a really batty in high school and is now like much better. And she says that sometimes she's driving and she looks at her pinkies.

This is maybe TMI, but she like wants to cut [00:47:00] them off for how much she tortured my mom when she was in high school. And so like that's all I'm thinking about is my sister driving her car, looking at her pinkies and being like, I gave them up for hiccups. Wait, 

[00:47:09] Parry: your sister going like this? 

[00:47:12] Becca: Now you have to change your, your, your hand emojis.

Oh, wait, okay. Okay, 

[00:47:16] Gabrielle: okay. Okay. So here's what we're, it's all coming together. My, and then I'll change my favorite emoji.

Yeah. I'm sorry for anyone not watching the YouTube video. I know [00:47:30] we're just holding up video, video. Uh, go back and go on YouTube and just scroll to potential 

[00:47:38] Parry: you not just listen to this one. You must see. You must see. This is much, must watch 

[00:47:43] Gabrielle: any other like, painful questions you guys have for me. 

[00:47:46] Parry: Well, we have the shark one.

Should we do the shark one? 

[00:47:49] Becca: We did the shark like a minute left. Go ahead and this 

[00:47:52] Parry: up. So, so pretty morbid at the end of the show apparently. Um. All right. You can have, [00:48:00] uh, $100 million given to you today to use as you freely choose. Uh, give it away bill of trust. Do whatever you want. Go on vacation. Do whatever the hell you want.

$100 million. However, if you accept the money the day you turn 90, you will, no matter what you do to avoid it, be devoured by a shark. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Until you're, until you're dead. 

[00:48:20] Gabrielle: 1000 hundred percent. I am taking this money. Um. I have like, this is like a piece of advice that I give to all the [00:48:30] people. Um, because like us as comms people, we become so like, I'm gonna bring it back to comms, like a good comms person here.

Mm-hmm. We, um, we feel just like so much attachment to our jobs and our companies because we are the protector of the brand. And I have to remind them, and sorry Perry, I know you like own an agency too, but, so I'm sorry that I'm gonna say this, but like. All we are to our jobs is a contractual agreement where we give them our brain and many hours a week, and they put money into our Wells Fargo account every other week.

Like that's it. That's the contract, that's the [00:49:00] agreement. Um, so now what you're saying with those a hundred thousand dollars is like, you eliminate this need for me to have this contractual agreement with a company, and now I have the freedom to do whatever I want, which by the way, would probably be.

Starting off the record. So this is why this is a very exciting time for me. The one, the one problem though, ninety's nice, but I actually think we're about to like live a lot longer than that. Mm-hmm. But there's no guarantee that I'm not gonna get eaten by a shark anyway, so I guess I'll take hundred million die 

[00:49:25] Becca: before 90.

Like I'm worried I'm gonna die every day. You have to 

[00:49:29] Parry: live until that point. [00:49:30] All right, I'm gonna change this, this parameter, 85 years old. Five years old, that's the time you're getting eaten by a shark. 

[00:49:37] Gabrielle: Yeah. I guess like at the same time, I wanna understand like how much AI is gonna make living at 85.

Awesome. Or not awesome. 

[00:49:43] Parry: You're gonna be perfectly healthy at 85, perfectly healthy grandkid, whatever, like perfectly healthy. You're changing all the 

[00:49:50] Gabrielle: rules. You still No, I I definitely, I'm still taking the a hundred million dollars. I too, I'm not that. Yeah. Because actually I think that knowing that I'm going to die a certain day is a very cool way to [00:50:00] live.

Um, because you can like, do so much and like set so much up and like. I will meet my grandkids. I may even meet grand great grandkids by then and like, and then it's like they're getting to live their best life. They're like ai, future world, where all they do is like, I don't know, arts and crafts all day.

I don't know what we'll do when the robots take course they have a hundred 

[00:50:17] Becca: mil from grandma. Well, 

[00:50:18] Gabrielle: and more because I'm a personal finance girl, you know, I'm gonna grow it. So, so 

[00:50:23] Parry: delight that I'd like to think most of us tell ourselves is that we're gonna live forever. And the reality of actually dying, especially on a [00:50:30] specific date by a specific animal with a ton of teeth.

Sounds terrible. You wouldn. Yeah, 

[00:50:35] Gabrielle: but could happen quickly, like 

[00:50:36] Becca: you'd bleed out pretty quick. So it's like it'll be over. How? How If you live with an anxiety disorder every day, like you, I'm worried about this all the time. Like, I mean, seriously, like every day of my life I'm worried I'm gonna get eaten by a shark.

I'm not even in the ocean. So like, come on, I'll live 

[00:50:51] Parry: you. You bleed out pretty quick, says gab. And with that. Um, it's a wrap. 

[00:50:58] Gabrielle: Thank you, Anne, be for having me. This was a, a [00:51:00] great way to spend a morning. Thank 

[00:51:01] Parry: you. Seriously, this has been so much fun. I'm super excited for you and the community and I will definitely pop in there at some point.

Some shoot me a little, um, invite or something and maybe we, we, we will do a, I don't know, a panel. Maybe we'll get together and do a workshop, something like that. 

[00:51:15] Gabrielle: Maybe we can do like a live podcast where the members ask you all questions. Yeah. 

[00:51:18] Parry: Ooh, that would actually be pretty fun. Becca. Fun. We could do 

[00:51:22] Gabrielle: whatever we want because we're making it up.

Whatever we want. 

[00:51:25] Parry: Greenfield opportunity. Alright. Thank you. Love it. Alright, so this is fantastic. [00:51:30] Thanks so much, um, and have a good rest of your day.