Add a Zero: Bribes, Rankings, and the B2B Fame Game with Jeremy Boissinot, CEO of Favikon

What happens when you create the only legit LinkedIn influencer ranking platform in the world… and then make the algorithm public?

You get bribe offers. Hate mail from millionaires. And a viral loop so strong it powers a 6-person startup with zero outbound sales.

In this episode of Under Embargo, we sit down with Jeremy Boissinot, CEO and co-founder of Favikon, the platform quietly transforming the B2B creator economy. 

We cover:

• The gamification of influence — and why clout is currency
• LinkedIn’s ranking blind spots (and how creators are cashing in anyway)
• Why Favikon is thriving in a space most VCs wouldn’t touch
• The ethical chaos of ranking real people — and what comes next

Also discussed: algorithm conspiracies, fake engagement pods, and how much Becca had to pay to outrank Parry. (Spoiler: still TBD.)

Transcript

[00:00:00] I got, like, I got a lot of, um, bribe offers. Nice. You know, not direct bribe offers, but like, can I get in disguise? Mm-hmm. And of course, like, uh, I have to turn out everything. And, uh, my wife is very unhappy about it and she says, I need to accept, who cares? How much did, how much did Becca pay you to get her incredible ranking?

[00:00:17] 'cause millions, she was ranked higher than me and I thought, not anymore. I don't think money exchanged here at this point. Yeah, Parry, you need to, you need to be more, uh, it's add zero in your offer.

[00:00:29] Intro: Welcome to Under Embargo, the podcast that says the quiet part out loud about PR, communications, and the chaos in between. Hosted by two of LinkedIn's most connected. Comms Pros, Becca Chambers, A no BS Corporate Comms Exec with Raging A DHD, and Parry Hedrick, founder of Tech PR firm, crackle pr. This show brings it all real talk, sharp insights and the kind of industry truths they don't put in.

[00:00:55] Intro: Press releases. No fluff. No filters, no given. [00:01:00] This is under embargo. Let's get into it.

[00:01:04] Becca: Hello and welcome to our fourth, I think, fourth episode of Under Embargo. Yes. Very exciting. Um, and today we have a super exciting guest named Jeremy Bossi. No, I don't know if I did that right. 

[00:01:21] Becca: Woo. There I did. 

[00:01:22] Becca: Yes, practiced. Um, he is the CEO and co-founder of Favikon, which is an AI powered creator marketing platform that has recently started blowing up all over the socials.

[00:01:34] Becca: Um, he has been the co-founder and CEO actually at a number of startups throughout his career, which is super interesting as I was. Stalking your LinkedIn profile. I would love to hear about that. Um, and he has become one of the leading voices in the kind of evolving, maturing creator economy, um, especially on LinkedIn.

[00:01:52] Becca: So I've learned a ton from Jeremy just in the past few months that we've been connected, and I'm super excited to have him on today. He's [00:02:00] joining us from Paris, France, our first international guest. So thank you for making time for us this evening, I guess, and welcome to Under Embargo. 

[00:02:08] Jeremy: Thank you so much for having me.

[00:02:10] Jeremy: Really, it's an honor and I'm really excited to have this discussion with you guys about the creator economy and what, whatever, whatever you want, uh, when it comes to influencer marketing. Great to have you here. 

[00:02:22] Becca: Um, so let me kick off just with, uh, I would love to hear from you kind of. What is Fcon? How did it come to be?

[00:02:31] Becca: How did you get involved in that? It's such a, you know, important invol evolving space right now. So I just love to hear kind of the backstory. 

[00:02:41] Jeremy: Wait, to be honest, if you told me like a few years ago that, uh, my job would consist in rating people, uh, I would be like, no, there's no way you would do that. It's really, you know, like many startups kinda like came by chance, you know, it's a succession of, you know, like, kinda like many.

[00:02:59] Jeremy: Uh, so at [00:03:00] first we started like, you know, like a regular influencer marketing platform where it was more about identifying influencers and we did like. I think like three years ago we did a LinkedIn ranking, but it was more like a marketing stunt. So literally we did it. But like the old fashioned way, I had an intern, I told her, okay, can you look up all the influencers?

[00:03:19] Jeremy: 'cause it was in France only at the time. So look up for influencers on LinkedIn, in France. She spent like, I. We spent, actually, we spent like two weeks looking for them, uh, like manually. And we released this ranking in France and it really blew up. So we're like, oh, people seem, seem to love, uh, you know, LinkedIn influencers.

[00:03:37] Jeremy: So you know what? Let's try it on a global level. On global stage. We did it for international influencers. It took us like a month because I imagine it was even harder and ever because it was again, a manual process. So very tedious and it blew up. Really like crazy. And that's why we thought like, okay, there's something going on with LinkedIn, with LinkedIn influencers.

[00:03:58] Jeremy: Remember it was three years ago. So it [00:04:00] was really, really the start of B2B influencer marketing. So that's where we decided to kinda like make a new platform, uh, where we would really take into account B2B influencers, so not only B2C. And on top of that there was like AI rising up. So there was like this combination of AI.

[00:04:17] Jeremy: B2B influencers. So we decided to make this new platform based on these, on those two things. And essentially that's how new, you know, came up, uh, this new platform. And yeah, it's been working really well because I, I think there's a huge retina surge of B2B influencers. But again, it's not so much about B2B influencers, it's more about how influencer marketing is evolving.

[00:04:39] Jeremy: Um, I feel like we are entering a stage where. Anybody is a creator. So we are like, before that it was like Instagram influencer, YouTube influencer, et cetera. But now that B2B influencer exists, it means that any employee, any CEO, anyone really can create content. Before that, you had to know how to make videos.

[00:04:57] Jeremy: To be on Instagram or YouTube, and now you can just [00:05:00] write anything. Which means that the, the industry is so much more interesting, much bigger. You can make podcasts, you can make newsletters, you can create articles on LinkedIn, which makes the industry way more interesting. And that's really what we're trying to do with, uh, at the moment.

[00:05:17] Becca: It's so awesome. I mean, seriously. Uh, the first time I found out about it because somebody posted, right? It has such a virality effect because people are like, oh, there's a ranking. I can go see my ranking, and then they wanna see theirs, right? If somebody shares their own, they wanna go see what, where they're, and that's how I.

[00:05:36] Becca: Found Fcon and somebody else, I think 

[00:05:38] Parry: you told me about it, Becca, if I'm not mistaken. 

[00:05:40] Becca: Exactly. I'm like, Hey dude, look, you're ranked really high in this category and, and you know, I can't tell you how many. Kind of side conversations I've had with people, Jeremy, where they're like, have you guys looked on Fcon?

[00:05:52] Becca: Is this right? Am I actually the top 1% of something? Like it's just, it. It's kind of this constant chatter, which I think is so [00:06:00] interesting. And from where you sit, obviously you can see because people are paying for this service. Right? So how have you seen, even in like the last six months, has this really like taken off in a more meaningful way?

[00:06:12] Becca: Yeah. 

[00:06:12] Jeremy: So we have no sales in the team. We are a team of six people. People are amazed when they, they know we are only six people. Uh, we are a hundred percent PL, g, only inbound. Again, we, no, no outreach, nothing, et cetera. So we literally based everything on reality. Um, so what we did last year, when we found out that our rankings were like really, like successful people were like liking it.

[00:06:37] Jeremy: We decided to hire a DA data scientist. Who came in the team for like six months and we, we made the whole thing to make a hundred percent transparent and to make it a hundred percent bulletproof. And when we released this new version, uh, I think it was, yeah, September last year, it blew up even more because now people know that we're not full of shit.

[00:06:56] Jeremy: It's completely transparent. They know that, okay, [00:07:00] uh, there's a score, but they know exactly what the score is all about. Because before that, people thought you were like, yeah, this. Yeah, it was very enabled, but people were like, okay, value Square. I have no idea what that is. We are, I mean, we are not Forbes, so we didn't have the brand, you know, we could use the credibility, but now that everything is public, and again, it took us a lot of effort, like, because the reason why we are the only company pretty much doing it is because essentially it doesn't make sense.

[00:07:25] Jeremy: In terms of economics, right? 'cause people don't pay for rankings. So why would you spend literally a year dedicate dedicating efforts employees into making rankings? But because it was always for us, a long-term decision, kind of like. Like sacrificing the whole year so that now we are in a good spot. And, uh, that's really hard for another company to come into this market because good luck with making rankings.

[00:07:48] Jeremy: So that's what we did. And of course, on top of that, we launched a creator plan because before that it was only for brands, right? But we realized that there were so many creators asking for the rankings that we decided to do this [00:08:00] plan on top of the business. Like the regular, the regular offer. And honestly, was the decision ever because now people are.

[00:08:09] Jeremy: Not necessarily paying because you know you have a free trial, but still now they can gain access to the platform, retrieve their rankings, whether they pay or not, it doesn't really matter because in the end they're just gonna shadow rankings, which is like free advertisement for us. So it's really a virtual circle.

[00:08:24] Jeremy: And yeah, we were happy about this model and I call it often the ego business. And trust me, the ego business is much, much bigger than people think. It's, uh, crazy how much people are willing to be high in the ranking. I've got, I got like tons of messages from like big CEOs like. Millionaires who are like asking me how to, you know, move up the rankings.

[00:08:46] Jeremy: Yeah. I was super mad because they're not high enough. Wow. I get, I get hate messages every week. When you start getting the 

[00:08:53] Parry: hate messages, that's when you know you really made it. That's when, you know, 

[00:08:57] Jeremy: sometimes I'm like, dude, you're like a millionaire. [00:09:00] I have like, I'm broke. Who cares if you write high? The ranking.

[00:09:03] Jeremy: And also I got like, I got a lot of, um, bribe offers. Nice. Not direct right offers, but like, can I in disguise? Mm-hmm. And of course like, uh, I have to turn out everything and my wife is very unhappy about it and she says, I need to accept. Who cares. How much, how much did Becca pay 

[00:09:19] Parry: you to get her incredible ranking?

[00:09:21] Parry: 'cause millions, she was ranks higher than me and I thought, not anymore. I don't think money exchanged here at this point. 

[00:09:28] Jeremy: You need to, you need to be more, uh, it's add zero in your offer 

[00:09:33] Parry: So a a question about, um, kind of the gamification piece. When I think of, when I think of being a creator myself and having somebody in my orbit, like Abeka, like, you know, we're kind of, we're kind of playing the game to see who's gonna pass who and all that.

[00:09:48] Parry: That's, it's a fun piece of it. It's like the gamification of your. Personal brand. Um, my question to you is, do you support, uh, creators from a validation standpoint to help them get [00:10:00] brand deals, for example, so like you're, you're providing that air cover that validation, like, according to Pcon, I'm number one in this niche category.

[00:10:08] Parry: Do you take it a step further than that, or is that part of your roadmap? 

[00:10:12] Jeremy: It is a very good question. Uh, we are actually about to release a new company feature where we, you'd be able to reach out to brands directly on the platform and vice versa. So that's something we had on the, on the roadmap for a long time.

[00:10:25] Jeremy: And obviously getting rankings is good. Uh, also on the platform you can get, you know, this nice gamification features, but in the end, it's all about money, right? It's all about making money. It's all about getting those sweet brand deals. So we already have this like feature where you can have like this kind of like.

[00:10:40] Jeremy: Resume where you use your data to say, okay, I'm, I'm awesome. I like number two in this niche, et cetera. But it's not enough. And yeah, that's the end goal for us is to have this platform where you can get paid. When you can, uh, sign contracts where brands be able to reach out to you. They'll be able also to publish, um, campaigns.

[00:10:57] Jeremy: 'cause lots of them are doing campaigns. So that's [00:11:00] what we're about to wear is, uh, and we're talking about weeks tops. 

[00:11:04] Becca: Wow. Weeks. Yeah. 

[00:11:06] Jeremy: And excited weeks. I was 

[00:11:08] Becca: gonna say, I like that you figured out somewhere in this journey that focusing on the creators and the relationships with them is really valuable for you.

[00:11:17] Becca: Because I do think there are a lot of platforms coming on the scene who are all about the. For the business side, right? For the people who are looking for creators, which is great. That is, that is where the money is to be made, right? Like the individuals aren't where the money is to be made. However, what you've done is you've like just reverse engineered it and you'll end up getting way more of the business people because you have not only the solid rankings, but you have the creators coming to your platform.

[00:11:46] Becca: Like your platform is the only creator platform that I go to because. It's the one that's built for me to engage with, not just for me to go like put my stuff up there and somebody finds me. You know? And I think that that. Is a real [00:12:00] differentiator for you guys and pretty cool? 

[00:12:01] Jeremy: Yeah, I think from the very beginning, what we've done is really counterintuitive.

[00:12:04] Jeremy: Again, uh, when it comes to, you know, like, uh, economic, uh, like financial strategies, we didn't, you know, target brands. Uh, we did those rankings, which is not an official feature for anyone. Uh, but again, it's because we've always had this long-term vision, uh, in mind and credibility takes time. Uh, also gaining the, you know, confidence of creators.

[00:12:26] Jeremy: It's also something that takes time. And honestly, we are obsessed. I mean, I'm obsessed with Create Creators because I really believe that, um, like the industry was a bit unfair that we really, really got involved in it. As in it was kind of like a oligo poly, you know, of those creators always the same, creators getting always the same deals.

[00:12:48] Jeremy: Uh, and I really wanted to know, like, to make it way more. Democratic in a way, uh, so that every anybody can get the chance. And also on the more global stage, I think something a [00:13:00] big difference to other platforms that we're not just focused on the US or like English speaking markets. We really try to, you know, reach out to other markets, other industries, and.

[00:13:10] Jeremy: I think that's the reason why we gained the trust of creators. They knew also with the, you know, the public algorithm that we are, uh, we are serious when it comes to rankings. So yeah, that was, uh, difficult. It took us again, uh, a lot of pain and efforts for a year. Uh, but I think now it's paying off some pretty happy about it.

[00:13:30] Parry: What do you think about LinkedIn as it relates to, uh, the creator economy? So most of these platforms, there's some way for creators to make money, right? TikTok, uh, you know, you name it, Instagram, they, they're people are capitalizing and making money. Now, to be fair, when I'm on LinkedIn, I'm actually making money too, but it's through more of a social selling model where I talk enough about my industry, people believe.

[00:13:52] Parry: What I have to say, they trust me, they contact me, and I, I close a deal that way, but LinkedIn isn't directly paying me for anything. Um, and having said that, people [00:14:00] like me, Becca, you um, Jeremy with tons of followers, creating tons of content, are making zero money from LinkedIn. What is your take on that model and you think it's fair and, and where do you see it heading?

[00:14:14] Jeremy: Okay. It may be controversial, but I think it's fair because compared to other platforms, uh, being a creator is not a full-time job. Right. Like you said, you have a job. Uh, Becca has a job. Uh, and I think what made influencer marketing not effective on other platforms in the past few years, the reason why it's had a bad press as well is because you would have all this Instagram influencer, for instance, uh, making a lot of brand deals.

[00:14:36] Jeremy: Essentially the whole content was about, you know, making money, uh, lending deals left and right, which made their audience completely saturated. And I know if you aware of, uh, saturation rates, which is a pretty important KPI influencer marketing. But you would, the, the higher the saturation rate, uh, the less effective, uh, the influencer becomes for new [00:15:00] campaigns.

[00:15:00] Jeremy: And the reason why LinkedIn is so powerful when it comes to influencer marketing is that. If you don't need the money, right, uh, you already have your expertise. You don't need to just do influencer your marketing companies every week to make a living, which makes it more selective and which makes it more powerful when you work for a brand because your audience knows that you're serious about it.

[00:15:24] Jeremy: And also, since LinkedIn is such a service platform, since it's a professional platform, people know that if you work for a. It's probably because you believe in it, right? Because you, you wouldn't risk your credibility while on Instagram or YouTube, TikTok, et cetera, where if you do a bad campaign, people will forget after a few days because you just move on to new stuff, new content, they don't care.

[00:15:46] Jeremy: So there is no accountability. Whereas on LinkedIn there is, and actually it's really funny because now that we're trying to see more and more campaigns, right? Even on LinkedIn, I'm trying to see a few influencers. Who are starting to have a bad press because, you know, they're not affected [00:16:00] because you know how lots of them are using pods they're using, like they're not really in influential in the end.

[00:16:06] Jeremy: And I'm starting to, you know, to know, okay, this guy is not really serious, don't work with him, et cetera. So we are entering the phase where, uh, influencer need to be careful as well. And those inferences I'm talking about, they're literally just doing campaigns. They don't have like expertise in the first place.

[00:16:19] Jeremy: And that's these kind of influencers, uh, brands need to be careful about. 

[00:16:24] Becca: You know what else I noticed is, and I'm sure this will change, I'm sure in a year this will be different, but you know, I get approached now that I have a following on LinkedIn. I get approached by brands and what they wanna pay me for access to a super engaged senior audience is embarrassing.

[00:16:44] Becca: Like it's not worth it for me to, like you say, saturate my audience. With ads because they wanna give me 150 bucks to, yeah, no, I mean, I tell like, I think the mo, I mean, I am [00:17:00] just starting to kind of like dabble in like making real deals because to me it's not worth hundreds of dollars to start spamming my audience.

[00:17:09] Becca: Right? Like maybe if there's a real. Brand synergy and they wanna pay me not just for access to my audience, but also for my time. And I think that they're like that in LinkedIn hasn't happened yet. Like there are certain brands that are clearly starting to hire people to start finding influencers and finding micro influencers.

[00:17:29] Becca: Influencers and all that, but what they wanna pay people is not even worth the time that the person would have to spend on whatever the content is, let alone the access to their audience, which is what it's, what is the point of it anyway. So, and 

[00:17:42] Parry: to dilute your own credibility because people are like, what is this nonsense that you, if you're gonna pay me 10 

[00:17:46] Becca: grand to advertise your tech company like.

[00:17:49] Becca: Sure. That's a different story than like, Hey, will you do a presentation and plug my company and we're gonna give you $250 and we're gonna retweet [00:18:00] you or, and we're gonna repost it on LinkedIn. And I'm like. What, why would I do that? 

[00:18:06] Jeremy: I think it's because they are equ uh, LinkedIn inferences with like Instagram inferences.

[00:18:11] Jeremy: And since, you know, like the average number of followers is much, much, much, much lower. Like if you will work with a new friends on Instagram with 50 K followers, it's probably like expensive 

[00:18:20] Becca: at all, but. Isn't a LinkedIn follower way more valuable than an Instagram follower? It 

[00:18:27] Jeremy: is, but you know, your average marketer or something, maybe they don't know, but I think like, okay, she has 50 K followers on Instagram.

[00:18:34] Jeremy: It's $200, so let's, uh, ask for hundred dollars. You know, they, it doesn't get more complicated than that. 

[00:18:41] Parry: Actually, I have a question specific to what Becca just asked, which is, is there like some metric that you track or, or could track that's like influence of follower? I. You know, because to, to Becca's point, like I know that most of the people that are, are following me tend to be at least manager and above, and much of them are C-suite [00:19:00] executives from some of the biggest brands in the, in the country and in the world.

[00:19:04] Parry: Um, and these are movers and shakers, C-suite people who have a lot more cache, a lot more clout than say, you know, Susie who's dancing and showing her belly button on Instagram. Right? Yeah. Yeah. So like, I'm wondering, is there some metric that exists today or that you could, um, create that would show. For, for a creator, the strength of their audience to help them fashion better and more targeted and more lucrative, frankly, brand deals.

[00:19:28] Jeremy: Yeah. So right now we don't do it, but we are, we are gonna do it soon. Also, we are gonna add a new KPA where essentially we are gonna look at who engages with your content, and then there's gonna be, um, there's gonna be like a rating of your network. So that's something we have, um. On the roadmap. 'cause like you said, uh, the bad experiences I've heard of lately when it comes to influencer marketing on LinkedIn, it's always the same story.

[00:19:51] Jeremy: It's always the audience that's really bad. Uh, you have on LinkedIn, uh, honestly, I could give you tons of examples of people with lots of [00:20:00] followers, but like many of them, most of them are India or like not, you know, in their industry at all. Um, yeah, I've had this example of a. I mean, obviously I'm not gonna say the name, but the big difference in Europe and the brand was really disappointed because they, they realized that, yeah, most of the agents was not relevant at all.

[00:20:19] Jeremy: The only issue right now, the only downside with LinkedIn, right? If you want to do influencer marketing is really so easy to cheat. It's so easy to play, play around with the algorithm. Lots of people do it, so you have to be extra careful while, uh, when you're picking influencers. And that's actually, it's super easy.

[00:20:36] Jeremy: Just look at the content. Just look at the last post, look at the top 15 comments. That's, that's. 

[00:20:42] Becca: It. It seems to me like LinkedIn would actually be an easier place to find quality because people are posting once a day, right? Like that's why a post matters so much more. If you're posting once a day and LinkedIn told me this week I'm supposed to post four times a week, max, I.

[00:20:58] Becca: Yeah. Right. That's not gonna happen. [00:21:00] Yeah. Yeah. Awkward. Um, oh, so four times a day is too much I'm hearing. 

[00:21:06] Jeremy: Oops. Same. 

[00:21:07] Becca: Oops. Same. Um, but like that means that each one of my posts is way more valuable than the 19 posts that somebody's doing every day on Instagram or Twitter or whatever, you know? I just think that it's, it's very interesting that we haven't, that, not we, we know that, um.

[00:21:25] Becca: Influencer marketers at brands haven't figured out that, to Parry's point, that like senior executives whose names you can see who liked your posts as real people is not a more valuable metric than, or not a more valuable audience than, you know, Instagram likes. I, yeah, seems obvious. 

[00:21:45] Jeremy: Yeah, a hundred percent agree.

[00:21:46] Jeremy: And, um, engagement on LinkedIn is crucial. Uh, you know, when it comes to, you know, the algorithm that right now really, really favors lots of comments, lots of likes, which is why there many people are gaining the algorithm, [00:22:00] uh, asking lots of people to engage to comments. Uh, and it's, again, it's super easy to, to do that.

[00:22:06] Jeremy: So I could, we even identified last year, like a huge network. Of like not fake pages but like, I dunno, I can't go into details, but we were like big network where people would just, you know, comment and like each other and we're talking about pages thousand a pause. Yeah, like a pause was like thousand of followers for each pages.

[00:22:26] Jeremy: And then you would like at the comment to page comment, and then you would have like 50 people for each page comment. I mean, it's really like. Huge network going on. And so you have to be really careful. And when you're saying like they, I agree with you in terms of followers are way more valuable on LinkedIn, but also it's super easy to get lots of followers if you, if you cheat.

[00:22:45] Jeremy: So, but isn't 

[00:22:46] Becca: that true for like Instagram and Twitter too and with LinkedIn it's easier to tell who's phony. I just feel like it's so, yeah. Yes, you have to spend a little time doing it or you have to have people like you, I feel like you should create [00:23:00] some. Like news around it, right? Like make some, like call people out for pods.

[00:23:05] Becca: Like I feel like people love that kind of stuff online and you have like actual data to support it, not just like observations, 

[00:23:11] Jeremy: you know, I keep having people telling me to do this, but the big issue is that it's super easy to get banned on LinkedIn and whenever you're negative. Uh, you, your odds of getting bad are really bad, are really high.

[00:23:25] Jeremy: So if I call out someone, let's say tomorrow you can be like a hundred percent sure that they're gonna ask all their network to report my profile. Yeah. And my profile will be done within two days because the thing is, uh, they do it, you know, like they banned the automatic way. So basically what happens is that you, if you get a lot of people, um, you know, like exposing your profile on LinkedIn.

[00:23:47] Jeremy: Will get banned automatically and then it's such a pain to your account. Then you get like shadow et. So unfortunately it's not the risk and which is why we've also decided to. [00:24:00] Talk positively about creators. Uh, talk about rising stars like yourself a few months ago, rather than, you know, spending our time, you know, saying, this guy is bad, this guy is bad.

[00:24:07] Jeremy: We just, uh, it's not worth it to be honest. Do you have any direct 

[00:24:11] Parry: access to LinkedIn and the people who are kind of algorithmically tweaking the magic, or are you like everybody else waiting to kind of see what happens? 

[00:24:22] Jeremy: We're, um, so we kinda like judges, so we want to stay neutral. So we obviously have many people from LinkedIn using our platform in different markets, et cetera, but we don't have direct, direct access to the Secret Source.

[00:24:33] Jeremy: And to be honest, I'm not even sure that people at LinkedIn have access to their, I feel like it's a huge machine where even people in LinkedIn have no idea who does what kind of, it's very funny. Uh, it's a funny company. So no, we don't. 

[00:24:47] Parry: The one. Yeah, I think about the algorithm piece a lot and I, I don't know what goes into it, how many people are involved, but sometimes I'm like, maybe there's just some dude like, like named Ned in some shack.

[00:24:56] Parry: Totally. Just tweaking things. Totally. And he alone knows what's going on. No one else [00:25:00] knows anything until he rolls it out. 

[00:25:01] Becca: I fully believe that kind of, and you can always tell when he's messing with the algorithm too, right? Like, for those of us who are there all the time and like, 

[00:25:09] Parry: yeah, like, like Ned's, Ned's girlfriend breaks up and let, he's like, screw it.

[00:25:11] Parry: No one's getting any engagement for two months. 

[00:25:14] Becca: Zero impressions. Zero. Zero. Like totally ned's having a bad day. And so he tanks everybody's posts. I love it. So I guess on LinkedIn though, like what do you think? Okay, LinkedIn's not gonna pay creators. Do you think that like this time next year we're gonna ha see like it will be a totally different world for LinkedIn creators?

[00:25:36] Jeremy: I don't. Okay. You remember LinkedIn launching all those creator programs, having all those creator managers, uh. Last year or two years ago, and they kinda like, uh, decided to give up on them for a good reason. Is that, I mean, not a good reason necessary, but the reason is that they don't want CEOs, athletes, public figures.

[00:25:56] Jeremy: They don't want them to be called creators because it's not [00:26:00] positive for them. Like you, you just see a Walmart, you don't want to be called a creator, right? So that's the reason why they switch more like to thought leaders. 'cause it's more positive for them. And right now the obsession for link of LinkedIn, it's to attract those people on the platform.

[00:26:14] Jeremy: I don't know if you've noticed lately you've had all these, uh, big YouTubers, all these big athletes, uh, like stars showing the platform, and that's what LinkedIn wants because they want to become this like. High level content creation platform, uh, where, uh, you know, especially with the downfall of x, I mean, I used to be a huge Twitter fan, so I'm really sad of what Twitter has become.

[00:26:37] Jeremy: Its shadow for myself. And if you're like, um, if you're a. Content creator and like even like a public figure, Twitter is not that interesting anymore. And I, I think LinkedIn knows that there's a huge opportunity and that's the people they're trying to attract. So I don't think they're doing that much to, you know, like drive content creation, uh, on LinkedIn.

[00:26:59] Jeremy: It's more [00:27:00] about tracking high level people, including CEOs and public figures right now. And I think that's the reason why many creators are frustrated with the platform right now because. Honestly, I don't think it's their priority right now. Yeah. They don't want, you know, they don't want LinkedIn to become a space where you would, they would give you tips to, you know, to, with the algorithm.

[00:27:21] Jeremy: They would give you tips to create content because that's something we want. They don't want people to create content. They want people to create high quality content, and that makes a huge difference because essentially not everyone can create high level content. You see the difference? Yeah, 

[00:27:34] Parry: no, 

[00:27:35] Jeremy: that makes sense.

[00:27:36] Parry: Can I, can I switch platforms a little bit? What about Blue Sky? Are, are, are you guys dealing with Blue Sky? 

[00:27:42] Jeremy: Yeah. Um, so I think. Still think Twitter is too big to fail, um, and there's no right alternative at the moment, and you have this network effect, which makes it almost impossible, even for like a blue sky or anything else to really, you know, be a true [00:28:00] alternative.

[00:28:00] Jeremy: I think right now you have threats, but it's more like as a, you know, like. For Instagram influencers, if you wanna, you know, share your thoughts, you have threats, which has quite, I think it's quite successful, uh, as like an alternative social media, but I don't believe in blue sky. I don't believe in Masteron because again, it's too big Twitter.

[00:28:19] Jeremy: And actually in the last few weeks I've noticed kind of like a search on Twitter, like influencers coming back, including like left wing liberal figures again, posting because I think they're starting to realize. That they're just not being heard on other platforms. I mean, I've used Blue Sky, but honestly, you're, you, you reach no one in the, in the end, it's, you need a platform where everybody is, press is, et cetera.

[00:28:45] Jeremy: So yeah, Twitter is not what it used to be, but it's still there. It's gonna be hard to, to have a replacement form. 

[00:28:55] Parry: Yeah, I, I, I use Blue Sky primarily for like, my own mental health. I just [00:29:00] find it more enjoyable than than X. But I, to your point, like if there's a huge platform where there are no representative voices from all sides, then at some point those who are not participating in the conversation feel left out and they just go there because.

[00:29:15] Parry: It's like, what are you gonna do? Just not be heard. So I might as well go get in, get in bed with the pig, right? Um, yes. But, but so you don't, so you're saying Mastodon, blue sky, all these, they're too small. They don't have a big enough footprint, so they're not factored into your, your sort of algorithm? 

[00:29:31] Jeremy: No.

[00:29:31] Jeremy: And B2B in furniture, uh, so they have LinkedIn right now, so, you know, like those. People who are on Twitter. Yeah. Especially with business marketing, et cetera, not on LinkedIn, right? They're all like flocked to LinkedIn, that's for sure. But now if they're looking for an alternative, they're just gonna use newsletters, uh, like podcasts, this kind of stuff.

[00:29:51] Jeremy: I feel like the, the energy, et cetera, it takes to use other platforms, not worth it, even though many people rep repurpose for sure. But [00:30:00] again, it's uh, only a fraction of the audience you can get on XI mean, I did a thread a few months ago on x, I got like a hundred million views to have made tons of opportunities.

[00:30:11] Jeremy: Uh, I spoke to, um, vanity Fair because of that, and it would've never happened on, you know, so, yeah. Poor blue sky, they're like, 

[00:30:21] Becca: that's, is that a matter of the platform or is it just a matter of time? Like, yes, Twitter is the incumbent. It's been there for 15 years. Of course it has more people and right now more influence, whatever.

[00:30:32] Becca: But if it continues to be terrible and you know, people like us don't go back. Let's say, you know, let's say 20% of people who left come back at some point like. I don't know. It, it feels like the other people are going somewhere and eventually LinkedIn's gonna capture some amount of them. Blue Sky's gonna cap, like, will the audience just be more fragmented and I don't know, I don't know what I'm trying to ask.

[00:30:58] Becca: I, [00:31:00] I don't see myself or most of my friends going back to Twitter. Right. So like, I'm just trying to figure out like, what is. Not that there's gonna be an alternative, but it like, what is the future of social? Is it just that there are smaller networks that are more niche, that are more specific? Or will there be a replacement?

[00:31:20] Becca: Like, I don't know. I don't, I mean, nobody, well, I think 

[00:31:22] Jeremy: social media at the moment is really in a bad place, uh, super fragmented, uh, very like, um, if you go on Twitter, it's very right wing oriented. Uh, if you go on blue sky, it's more like liberal. Uh, so you have, it's like. People are, I don't know, like there's no social media where you can have like nice debates, nice discussions, et cetera, except for Blue Sky, for sure.

[00:31:44] Jeremy: But there's no one, I mean, very few people using it at the moment. And then you have LinkedIn where everything has to be super polished. Yeah. So if you say like, a cuss word is getting banned, so it's another extreme. So yeah, social media right now is super fragmenting. There is no like social media [00:32:00] where, uh, you could have like, kinda like of everybody, but I, I still think that Twitter.

[00:32:05] Jeremy: I think it's gonna go back to normal after a while, uh, when Musk at some point. I don't see Musk staying forever. Um, I think, I think like, uh, in the US right now, you know, like in terms of, uh, talking about politics, but I think like in two, three years things will go back to normal because people will have experience, you know, like.

[00:32:24] Jeremy: Jeremy's 

[00:32:25] Becca: much more optimistic than some of us, I would say. Keep talking 

[00:32:28] Jeremy: Jeremy. I like it. Yeah. Two, three 

[00:32:30] Becca: years from his mouth, man. We're going back to normal. No, but it's 

[00:32:34] Jeremy: be like the, uh, people are, I think I trying to realize, uh. I mean, it's been a few months in us, like it's kinda like a mess. Yeah. It'll just get worse.

[00:32:44] Jeremy: So my opinion is that in two years people will be like, okay, so being woke is not that bad. And it's be like, there's gonna be like an anti movement or something. So I don't know, we say goes, but I think it's gonna be the same for social. I think Twitter's, it's really in a bad state right now, and it was even worse a few months [00:33:00] ago.

[00:33:00] Jeremy: And again, I. I'm an active user of Twitter because, uh, I'm a huge news fan. I mean, you know, I studied political science economics, so I'm really interested in what's going on, and there's no alternative to Twitter when it comes to all this kind of stuff. And it was terrible a few months ago. It was just like right between people.

[00:33:16] Jeremy: Like we did a ranking for Twitter and like if you look at the top 200, and I'm not even kidding, 80%. Like Rightwing people rightwing or like super conservative. I'm surprised at all. Crazy. Joe Rogan Shapiro. Like all this guy crazy. 

[00:33:31] Becca: I didn't delete, oh sorry, go ahead. 

[00:33:33] Jeremy: Sorry. I get very intense when I talk about it, but like when you look at the top 20, you even had, you had like, um, people who were like Nazi almost.

[00:33:42] Jeremy: Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah. I mean, that's why I left. 

[00:33:46] Becca: It's because every interaction I had there turned into absolute vitriol, like disgusting hate speech. And I am like, I don't go on the internet to like have, uh, controversy like [00:34:00] conversations. Sure. But every, every single interaction turned into like, just stuff that I like was harming my mental health.

[00:34:07] Becca: Just to read other people's words. Right. Like crazy shit. 

[00:34:12] Jeremy: Yeah. Yeah. When you create content on Twitter where you say you need your helmet, you need to like be ready and holy. I even had, when I did like a thread a few weeks ago, someone, uh, like some mega people found it and they find my Instagram, my wife's Instagram, and they left comments on saying, oh, your husband did that.

[00:34:27] Jeremy: Uh. Was such a, such an asshole. So I was like, 

[00:34:31] Becca: hi. I know. 

[00:34:33] Jeremy: Nice. 

[00:34:34] Parry: Crazy. So let's, let's do a quick palate cleanse here. Let's say you are somebody who is a little younger than me. Uh, I'm, I'm a very young man myself, but let's say you're even younger than me. Um, and you are trying to establish a personal brand of your, of your own.

[00:34:48] Parry: Um, what and what tips would you give to someone who's looking at the tea leaves and saying, well, I guess every company that I've worked for isn't really my family because I got laid off. Uh, I guess, you know, [00:35:00] my, my family laid off mom and dad. Um. And I wanna try to, uh, hedge my, my, my bets and, and kind of write my own destiny.

[00:35:10] Parry: How do you, how do you parlay that from a influence standpoint? What should I be doing if I'm trying to make a name for myself, have a personal brand? What, what are some things I should be thinking about doing? 

[00:35:21] Jeremy: Well, I mean, it depends on the story you have to tell. Um, but definitely start with LinkedIn and I always tell that my employees, uh, LinkedIn should be like a no brainer for anyone right now to create content on.

[00:35:32] Jeremy: It's like a, your social resume, uh, and you are missing out. You should don't share your thoughts on LinkedIn. Um, and then on top of that, again, it really depends on what you have to talk about, but something that's really. Underrated is YouTube. I feel like YouTube is a great channel. Um, even influencer marketing, we've done studies and the return of investment with YouTubers small is huge, crazy, like much better than any anything else.

[00:35:58] Jeremy: Um, so [00:36:00] yeah, like, and I think it's enough, honestly, when you're getting started, what YouTube 

[00:36:04] Parry: is a bit for, for B2B. Like, is YouTube getting big for B2B or is, is it already big? And I'm just like in the dark. 

[00:36:11] Jeremy: You've got more, more and more, yeah. Influencers, um, taking up YouTube as a channel. Uh, you see a lot of LinkedIn influencers actually opening up channel because it's a, there's a good synergy between YouTube and LinkedIn.

[00:36:23] Jeremy: Yeah. And it's more serious than TikTok. Like if you have to choose between YouTube and TikTok could pick YouTube if you were like a B2B influencer. And I feel like right now, the, the perfect, uh. Three social medias would be LinkedIn, YouTube, and then a newsletter on top of it. So if you had the three of that for me as a content creator right now, B, to be content creator, that's the three perfect social medias.

[00:36:44] Jeremy: If you had to pick, because you get, you get your own onions audience with a newsletter, you get the videos with YouTube, and then you get LinkedIn as like a, your social resonate. 

[00:36:53] Becca: Hmm. 

[00:36:55] Jeremy: That's 

[00:36:56] Becca: goods on that. Can I ask you on that note [00:37:00] though, what, you know, you're in the creator economy tech world now and I know you've been going to events and stuff 'cause I've been seeing Yeah on, on LinkedIn.

[00:37:08] Becca: What are the other tools that are out coming out on the scene that are cool? Like for creators or for, you know, people that are trying to build brands online? 

[00:37:21] Jeremy: Well, I, in the US you get to know Stan. It's been doing a, I don't know if you've heard of this company, but they're doing, uh, amazing. Which company?

[00:37:29] Jeremy: Stan for creators. 

[00:37:32] Becca: Mm-hmm. 

[00:37:32] Jeremy: It's actually, honestly, it's, I think the company I look up the most to, uh, crazy. Like he builds in public the CEO. Uh, they've been doing so great. Uh, so basically it's like a. Like the platform for creators, like you can build your own kit, uh, you know, for, to get deals for brands.

[00:37:52] Jeremy: And even though like. A bit, little bit of competitors ourselves. Uh, it's okay. They're just a great company and they're doing amazing. So I feel like [00:38:00] right now they're, they're having a lot of traction. Each one to check it out. Check them out. Yeah. Uh, apart from that, on the creative side where you get the newsletter, you get Behe doing great on the newsletter segment, uh, you get all those creator tools to make videos like, uh, et cetera, but on like, uh.

[00:38:19] Jeremy: On our segment, on direct segment, no, nothing that comes to mind. And 

[00:38:26] Becca: I just, I, I think Opus is a good, like that. Those are the kinds of things. I wonder like, who do you like, just, yeah. What brands do you see creators using more and more? Because I know that we like passed brands around, right? Like, I started using Opus because a bunch of my influencer friends were clearly their, part of their, um, whatever it's called.

[00:38:44] Becca: What is it called when you do the. 

[00:38:46] Jeremy: Ambassador program. 

[00:38:48] Becca: Yeah, there you go. Thank you. The Ambassador program. So I was all of a sudden seeing Opus everywhere and then it switched to, um, descrip, right? Or however you pronounce that place. Anyway, [00:39:00] uh, I think playing with all of these tools is like the most fun thing in the world, so that's why I was asking what if you saw any new things coming on the scene that I should play with, but I'm gonna check out Stan now too.

[00:39:11] Jeremy: Don't check it that too, too long though, because it's still a competitor to, to work with. Especially now that we are, uh, launching this new company feature. 

[00:39:19] Becca: Very cool. Well, I'm excited for what you're, um, what you guys are coming, coming up with next. It seems like every few weeks there's like something new on the platform, so I'm a fan anyway.

[00:39:31] Jeremy: Yeah. 

[00:39:33] Becca: Parry, you were gonna say something before I interrupted you? 

[00:39:36] Parry: Uh, I was gonna ask about SHIELD ai, if you guys talk to them or integrate with them, or if that's just not in your wheelhouse. 

[00:39:46] Jeremy: They, they've been, uh, in the industry for a while. Probably the first real software to be on the LinkedIn influencer markets.

[00:39:55] Jeremy: Uh, they're doing great. So I mean, I haven't used it in a while, but they're like focused on analytics. Yeah. [00:40:00] Um, they're, I think you have perfect post also, which is a great tool. Um, you have the tool from, um. What's the name of the tool offered that also, it's a great tool. Mm-hmm. I know 

[00:40:14] Parry: Field and Andreas and I've, I've used that for, I don't know, probably three years now.

[00:40:18] Parry: So I guess they were kind of early in the, in the game. I just didn't know they were 

[00:40:21] Jeremy: super early. Yeah. Yeah. I mean we do also do like a similar thing with our analytics part, but in terms of analytics, they're probably the best Yeah. Uh, tool on the market right now. 

[00:40:30] Parry: Yeah. It's great to be able to see which PO posts perform the best and kind of.

[00:40:34] Parry: Repurpose those when you're feeling like you have nothing to say today. It's like, nice. I'm gonna pluck that one that went crazy, uh, six months ago. Should we do the, the rapid round? Is that the point of the. 

[00:40:47] Becca: Jeremy, are you ready for the rapid fire questions that we ask all of our guests? 

[00:40:53] Jeremy: That sounds scary, but yes, go for it.

[00:40:55] Becca: Very scary. And if you answer wrong, we send [00:41:00] objector seat to your house. Yeah, right. Ejector seat. 

[00:41:02] Jeremy: There you go. I'm ready. I'm ready. Send it. 

[00:41:04] Becca: What is a myth or misconception about communications that drives you crazy or marketing or influencer? 

[00:41:13] Jeremy: I see algorithm. I think it's overrated. People are way too obsessed with algorithm in general, and I think it's, uh, people should stop caring about it and care more about their own content, et cetera.

[00:41:25] Jeremy: And yeah, that's, uh, that, that'd be definitely my answer. 

[00:41:29] Parry: Strong content cuts through the algo, basically just keep, keep doing what you're doing and try to make it quality, right? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Honestly, 

[00:41:37] Becca: that's a solid answer. And don't chase virality. Yep. Okay. Number two, you get to erase one corporate buzzword from existence.

[00:41:44] Becca: What are you erasing? 

[00:41:47] Jeremy: What do you mean by corporate word? Like, 

[00:41:50] Becca: um, like, uh, like 

[00:41:52] Jeremy: synergies and words. Yeah. 

[00:41:54] Becca: Or let's take this offline. 

[00:41:56] Jeremy: Yeah. Um, [00:42:00] yeah, that's a good question. Uh, maybe like family, you know, as a team, like when you have a company, you say, this's my family or something. That's something I hate. And that's something I always tell my people in my company.

[00:42:10] Jeremy: We're not a family. You have a family, you have a wife, you have a husband, you have children. That's your family. And I hate when, uh, friends are trying to pretend they're like a family because it's something completely different. 

[00:42:23] Becca: Totally. And your family does not pay you. I wish my family would pay me. You know, that would be, uh, and 

[00:42:29] Parry: sometimes you have to keep a family member around even when you can't stand.

[00:42:32] Parry: That family member can't fire them. 

[00:42:34] Becca: No. 

[00:42:34] Parry: Yes, exactly. 

[00:42:35] Becca: Bummer. Um, okay, next, you are about to give a presentation in front of 50,000 people. What is your walkout song or walk-in song? 

[00:42:48] Jeremy: Wow. That's, uh, that's a good question. Um, the caterers, I think. Like a rock. I probably, I love, uh, English rock. So I would pray, use something like very [00:43:00] punchy and, uh, English rock band from the seventies or eighties or something like, uh, to make it, uh, you know, to make the biggest entrance possible.

[00:43:08] Becca: Love it. Mine's a queen song, so I'm with you on that. Perfect. 

[00:43:11] Jeremy: Perfect. 

[00:43:12] Becca: Yeah. Okay. You have to give a Ted talk on anything but influencer marketing or Favikon or anything. What would you, what would your topic be? 

[00:43:24] Jeremy: Politics, easy. Political science of politics. That's why I studied, that's what I'm passionate about.

[00:43:30] Jeremy: And I could talk for us about this. Uh, or history also, um, or philosophy also, like I, uh, I'm a super curious person. I, I did several, um, like degrees and yeah, I could talk about. Pretty much anything. That's what I was, uh, I studied. So you're in good company. Us too. The political world is so boring right now.

[00:43:51] Jeremy: What would you possibly say? It's fascinating what's going on. It's fascinating. Pretty scary, but fascinating. 

[00:43:58] Becca: I mean. Just to [00:44:00] interject quickly, uh, as I am also a political science major and thought I wanted to be in politics growing up until I realized what it act, the thick skin that I would need to actually be in politics, but being a political scientist or somebody who's super engaged in history, it is.

[00:44:16] Becca: Disturbing to live through this timeline in history. When you really understand the context of it all, it makes it, I don't know, scarier, but it's 

[00:44:23] Jeremy: very interesting because in France, I don't know about the US but I say political science and honestly like the smart people actually no, none of them like, uh, went to politics because they, that it's not intellectually stimulating, you know?

[00:44:38] Jeremy: Yeah. And the thing is, I feel like we are ending up with this generation where people are into politics and. The bad people. Yes. You know, like not, I don't sense. I agree with you. And that's the problem we're having with our politicians right now is that like the, the smart one are like doing. Companies, they're working the other stuff because honestly, who would want to be integrated?

[00:44:58] Jeremy: Exactly. That's [00:45:00] exactly it. 

[00:45:00] Becca: Exactly. Who would put themselves in that, or their families through that or whatever, when they could go just live their life and get rich doing something else? A hundred percent. Yeah. 

[00:45:10] Jeremy: I mean, I feel like, again, I'm not, I mean I'm, I'm not a term fan for sure, but like if it's so bad, for instance, with Kamala Harris, because.

[00:45:19] Jeremy: Honestly, she did what, whatever she could, but in the end, it didn't matter so much energy for nothing because people are not just listening to, you know, arguments they aren't listening to. It's not about who's right or who's not. So in the end, it's so frustrating. 

[00:45:33] Becca: So frustrating. It's, we are in a post, post information world now.

[00:45:37] Becca: We are just going with vibes. Post 

[00:45:39] Jeremy: truth world. 

[00:45:40] Becca: Post truth world. Right? 

[00:45:41] Jeremy: Yeah. That's also, I think my degree in political science is also what's driving us at Fcon. Uh, to move from an inference from marketing platform to more like a creator. Not a creator, but like, um, uh, yeah, creator intelligence platform.

[00:45:55] Jeremy: You know, we released this, um. Politician levels where you can [00:46:00] know if someone is conservative, et cetera. And I feel like that's, uh, driving us to do even more stuff in this space because I think it's very important in our societies today to understand who talks about what, uh, who supports what, and.

[00:46:12] Jeremy: We'll go even deeper, uh, in this regard. 

[00:46:14] Parry: Can I just, I know this is, we're kind of doing this breezy, little lightning round thing, but one thing I saw recently that I was struck by was a company called Media Matters, and they had this graph that showed conservative voices versus, uh, liberal voices. Oh yeah, I saw that.

[00:46:29] Parry: And how, um. Saturated, since we've used that word earlier, how saturated the social platforms are with hard right voices. Um, and my, I guess the question for you would be, are, are you thinking about doing anything along those lines where you can kind of amp like show the ecosystem of, of the powerful voices on either side to show proportionality?

[00:46:51] Jeremy: We have so much data about this right now. We have, you know, with AI we are able to identify causes like society causes, like I know Vega and Program and [00:47:00] pro-abortion, et cetera, and we already have all this information. So now what we're looking for is a good way, you know, to put it on the platform, et cetera.

[00:47:06] Jeremy: But this is definitely on a roadmap. We have so much interesting information about this. So, but that's, that comes next because people don't pay for this information right now. So right now we have to prioritize, you know, like. Company make money, we're trying to raise funds. And then on, I can see you 

[00:47:24] Becca: guys getting scooped up by uh, a media company or a political whatever company because this is super powerful, important information and your stuff isn't just who has the most followers and that equals influence.

[00:47:38] Becca: Yours is really measuring influence and I think that that is something that is different. 

[00:47:43] Jeremy: Yeah. We have medias using US medias. Washington Post is a customer, for instance. Very cool. Um, but I think we need to go even, uh, deeper into this, uh, industry. 

[00:47:54] Becca: Um, okay. I've got two more rapid fire questions for you.

[00:47:57] Becca: You get to use one emoji for the rest of your life. [00:48:00] Which one are you gonna use? 

[00:48:02] Jeremy: Um. I love the one with the glass. You know, when you are like curious about something. I use it all the time. Oh, the one The one monocle glass. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. 

[00:48:14] Becca: That's a good one. I like that one too. 

[00:48:16] Jeremy: I like this one. 

[00:48:17] Becca: Okay.

[00:48:18] Becca: And then the last one, there's also 

[00:48:20] Jeremy: this one, you know, this one. When I'm unhappy with my wife, she says something I'm not happy about. I did this, like I'm right away, 

[00:48:26] Parry: right away. 

[00:48:28] Becca: Parry, take it away with our, with our last rapid fire. 

[00:48:31] Parry: But Jeremy, don't judge me too harshly here, but we ask this question of everyone because it's a fascinating, the responses are fascinating.

[00:48:39] Parry: You, you can either have hiccups for three straight months, like round the clock hiccups, or you have to chop off your own pinky. What do you choose? Do you keep the hiccups? Do you keep the finger what? What's your thought process? 

[00:48:54] Jeremy: What's the pink, is this hand finger, right? This one. My [00:49:00] hiccup, for sure. 

[00:49:01] Parry: You would, you would keep 

[00:49:02] Jeremy: the hiccups for sure.

[00:49:04] Jeremy: Like what would you, what would I want to get rid of my finger. I did it. Ask Becca. She said she'd cut off a pinky. 

[00:49:11] Becca: Take the pinky, take it. Take the pinky. Have you ever had hiccups for days at a time? I always tell people this, it sucks. It hurts so bad. I've, I've lived through it, not months, but days. It's brutal, man.

[00:49:26] Becca: I'm 

[00:49:26] Jeremy: a go, I'm a long-term person, so in, in the long term, I'd rather have more fingers. So same, I've 

[00:49:34] Parry: asked my whole family this and, and, and my extended family and literally everyone, I'm talking like 15 people. They all, including my kids, said they would cut off their pinky. And I'm just like, you would mutilate your hand rather than suffer for three months with a little minor inconvenience.

[00:49:50] Parry: And the answer is 

[00:49:51] Jeremy: minor. 

[00:49:52] Parry: Astonishing. I guarantee you, Jeremy, if you asked a bunch of people, a surprising number would say they would get rid of their pinky. It's it's bananas. 

[00:49:59] Jeremy: It's true and I [00:50:00] would say that, but when it comes to the, the moment where they would've, the finger shut up, I can guarantee you, uh, no one would do it.

[00:50:06] Becca: We did have somebody on the show, uh, who basically offered to do it live on the show because he hated his pinky. So, you know, never know what you're gonna get here on under Embargo. And with that. I'm gonna wrap us up and say thank you, Jeremy. This was awesome, and I feel like we could talk for many more hours about influencer marketing and I think we should talk in six months again, because I think it'll be a totally different scene.

[00:50:31] Becca: That's a very 

[00:50:31] Parry: good point. We'll, yeah, big fan of the platform also. Um, and just make sure that you accept the money that I'm giving you to rank me even higher. Okay. I'm, I have one last thing to offer. 

[00:50:41] Becca: Jeremy, do you have any closing thoughts or anything you want to say to the audience or places to tell 'em to go?

[00:50:48] Jeremy: Just remember that, uh, like even if for about ranking, et cetera, just have fun. You know, like it's not about, uh, don't be obsessed with rankings. Don't be obsessed with creating content. Don't be obsessed with algorithm. What [00:51:00] ultimately matters is, uh, having fun, uh, for everything. So 

[00:51:04] Becca: love it. 

[00:51:05] Jeremy: That's how I am.

[00:51:06] Becca: Have fun. Thanks Jeremy. 

[00:51:09] Jeremy: Alright, thanks buddy. Thank you very much. Bye-bye. Bye.